Curse

suiraCLAW · Apr 27, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by LamerFlamer

Monk's got an anti EoE Bomb, that I think that is going to be run in pvp sometimes. The skill is called Dwayna's Sorrow, the description is, All nearby allies are enchanted with dwaynas sorrow for 30 seconds, if an ally dies with this enchantment on, the whole party is healed for x ammount. I think that this would completely stop an EoE bomb.

that spell is only usefull for mm's, seriously...

but who wants to run mm now anyway?

Entropius · Apr 27, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Spending most of your on plan C sounds like a poorly formed plan.

Channeling on an SB/infuse monk only encourages that player to do the least efficient thing possible which is get in the enemies face and spam orison. I may be different than everyone else in this regard, but I prefer the SB/infuser to play more like a GvG flag runner (hang out in the back and cast Heal Party and Aegis and toss an SB in on whomever is having nasty spells cast on them) except against spike teams. Against spike teams I want my whole team including the infuser to get right in their face.

The issue is, only against spike do you need to infuse, and throwing out breaker is something you can only do every 45 seconds.

You've proposed an alternate thing to do while you're waiting on opportunities to use your money skills (SB and Infuse): cast spells like aegis and party. Unfortunately that will eat your energy for breakfast unless you devote several slots to energy management; I'm curious what bar you run. Do you use multiple Inspiration skills (drain ench/power drain/ihex)? (I like power drain on monks, but that's another story.)

Channeling does encourage positional irresponsibility, but that doesn't mean that it mandates it. You could say that oflame on an Elementalist's bar encourages them to exhaust themselves, but that doesn't mean it's a bad skill... it just means you have to exercise a little restraint in using it. Rather than running into the middle of everything, getting +5 energy per cast on orison, and then dying when an earth ele and a warrior go "Ooh, squishie!", a channeling monk can average +1 or +2 per cast while still maintaining a responsible position, simply because there are ALWAYS random people running around every which way in Tombs. When the other team lets me I play infuser like you mentioned: stay way the hell back, GvG style. But that's rarely an option, just because Tombs turns into a giant furball so often -- and when it does so, Channeling shines.

The main question is, what do you do when you're not camping a spike waiting for infuse, removing hexes, or casting big-ticket spells like heal party, seed, and aegis? You've got to do something, and standing around wanding things waiting on energy for the next Heal Party is suboptimal.

I prefer, yes, to turn on channeling and spam orison and kiss, standing in as safe a position as I can and still get energy. Sure, it's not the optimum way to heal, and no dedicated healer would dream of doing it.

But it's something to do that's productive, on a character who's designed to do two very important other things ... who only has to do them a small portion of the time.

(SB/Infuses are like safety monitors at a nuclear plant (Homer Simpson?). They sit around all day waiting to perform a vital role if some critical accident happens, but in the meantime they've got to do something...)

JR · Apr 27, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

that spell is only usefull for mm's, seriously...

but who wants to run mm now anyway?

From the description I would assume it only effects the same characters that a Heal Party would.

Wasteland Squidget · Apr 27, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

From the description I would assume it only effects the same characters that a Heal Party would.

In the last beta it worked on minions, which made it an awesome 12v12 skill. I'm not sure if this has been changed.

Byron · Apr 28, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Sure, you lose KD. But it isn't about hammer being KD. It's about hammer contending to for a spot on the damage+ against sword and axe.

I'll try to avoid the matter that I have a KD addiction. But KD is undeniably the reason to even bring a hammer in the first place, if you ask me. An axe or sword could probably do a non-KD combo quicker and better than any chain of hammer attacks. Plus, there is one point that really disqualifies the no KD chain on a hammer: crushing blow. It needs KD, unfortunately. So personally, I wouldn't run any non-KD chain, but I could possibly see it get some use on a 2-warrior spike with shock and eviscerate.

I wasn't so much interested in fierce blow, though I can see it being useful on the bar, especially after devestating hammer. I was interested in Forceful->Heavy->Crushing->Irresistable, all of which deal substantial damage bonuses, and crushing blow deals deep wound. With the most adrenaline required being 6 with heavy blow, this side-steps the demands of backbreaker, and delivers a damage bonus where devestating hammer doesn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xasew

Anyone interested in Life Sheath?

Yes, I was initially interested in its potential on a boon/prot, but due to its recharge, it doesn't make much sense. Even on an active prot, I think there are more useful skills to take up the elite slot, if you're not going to bring an elite e-management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropius

Kiss is competitive on SB/Infuse guys in HA because it is more efficient than Other with Channeling active, and that character needs all the energy efficiency that they can get.

I think kiss is fantastic with all the migraine going around, but it should probably be the job of the WoH with his amazing 5-energy heal to do most of the small time stuff. As SB/Infuse, your concern is more often keeping the other monks alive and preventing sudden death. Ensign thankfully pointed out that SB/Infuse has to have the capability to pick up the slack if the WoH is down or over-stressed, so if it's possible, i'd take both heal other and kiss. I think it's already been established that having orison and kiss on the bar isn't too efficient on a monk whose job isn't clean-up heals. I'd refer to Ensign's build in one of the previous posts for a solid SB/Infuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Fall back to safety and either the mesmer will lay off or will follow. If the mesmer follows, then inform your team quickly and kill the mesmer that is out of range of their monks.

Well of course, but that's assuming your entire team is in a position to react based on the fact that you're getting e-denied. Chances are, there are going to be other problems that need addressing. Just as well, if you move back far enough, your warriors will be over-extended. But such a tactic could (and does) work in less stressful situations.

Quote:

Every team has enchantments, even IWAY, and not just some enchantments but a lot of them.

You make a valid point, and if you can fit drain enchantment on the skillbar, then it could be an effective tactic. But I would be very hesitant to replace inspired hex: even if migraine doesn't scare you, things like barbs, linguring curse, conjure nightmare, or life siphon probably should.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland squidget

There it's competing with Air of Enchantment, which is simply a more effective skill for supporting your team, IMHO.

Air of enchantment could be very effective when the damage is predictabe. But what I like most about active prots is their ability to dump a quick and effective enchantment and switch to a new role without any serious energy committment. You know, prot spirit on #7, mend condition on #2, no problem. While air of enchantment is quite nifty, it also requires you to cast 2 prots on the same target in 10 seconds to make a profit. Chances are, once an enemy team sees the prot spirit go up, they'll move on before you can get off a guardian or whatever. And then it takes up the coveted elite spot on a prot monk, if you can afford to have a prot elite, where I love RC or shield of deflection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropius

But it's something to do that's productive, on a character who's designed to do two very important other things ... who only has to do them a small portion of the time.

That's why I love assuming the role of monk-protector while I infuse. Gives you a sense of purpose when you'r enot worried about infusing. With high divine favor, your options are limited though. So depending on the type of build, I run convert hexes or divine intervention for fellow monk support. Healing isn't all an infuser can do.
Something I've actually seriously considered, in light of the new skills, is subbing out inspiration magic for smites on an infuser. As has been said, channeling is sub-par for an infuse role in most cirumstances anyway. Things that are especially appealing are smite hex, zealots fire, and spear of light. So, ah- here's my theoretical build.

Mo/Me
12+1+3 divine favor
9+1 healing prayers
9+1 smiting prayers

dwayna's kiss (healing prayers)
infuse health (healing prayers)
heal other (healing prayers)
signet of devotion (divine favor)
spell breaker (divine favor)
zealot's fire (smiting prayers) If the build can afford it. More likely, go with HP, divine intervention, or even another smite
spear of light (smiting prayers)
smite hex (smiting prayers)

Spear of light lands for 100 damage on an attacking target while costing 5 energy, with a recharge of 15s. I guess signet of rage is the same idea but with less potential damage. Now a backline can fight back against frenzy, or finish off those damned IWAY warriors before they start shouting. And smite hex lands for 60 damage in a rather large area, having a rechage time 5 seconds less than that of inspired hex. Zealot's fire means whenever you cast a heal, 25 damage hits people adjacent to you healing target. But, this may tempt a monk to go into cowboy mode and forget about the real mission, which is healing; the smites should really be used in an offensive kind of defense. And they should only be used in low-stress situations. But this does make an infuser more fun, and perhaps more valuable. Energy has to be managed more carefully, obviously. I'd suggest using signet of devotion for junk heals as often as possible anyway.

*EDIT: fixed my description of the zealot's fire slot

Wasteland Squidget · Apr 28, 2006, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Air of enchantment could be very effective when the damage is predictabe. But what I like most about active prots is their ability to dump a quick and effective enchantment and switch to a new role without any serious energy committment. You know, prot spirit on #7, mend condition on #2, no problem. While air of enchantment is quite nifty, it also requires you to cast 2 prots on the same target in 10 seconds to make a profit. Chances are, once an enemy team sees the prot spirit go up, they'll move on before you can get off a guardian or whatever. And then it takes up the coveted elite spot on a prot monk, if you can afford to have a prot elite, where I love RC or shield of deflection.

The advantage of Air of Enchantment is when your party members are also utilizing it. Though it's helpful for the followup advantages if you need to throw more prot on the guy, Air's main purpose is to support the Boon prots on your team. For a boon prot, heals on a guy who has AE are basically free, as are prots. Thus, you save your team a lot of efficency over time, since any heal on a target who was being focused comes at an incredibly cheap price.

Of course, it takes a certain amount of skill and coordination among your backline to use correctly, and it works a bit differently than standard prot, but it's effect is almost too good to turn down in my opinion.

Byron · Apr 28, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Thus, you save your team a lot of efficency over time, since any heal on a target who was being focused comes at an incredibly cheap price.

And it counts for a heal as any enchantment under boon would, which makes it even better against predictable damage. But I'm still sketchy as to whether this will work in practice. If I were a team going against 2 boon/prots with air of enchantment, I'd work around it by splitting targets and/or switching targets often, then spiking the monks themselves.

Divineshadows · Apr 28, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

And it counts for a heal as any enchantment under boon would, which makes it even better against predictable damage. But I'm still sketchy as to whether this will work in practice. If I were a team going against 2 boon/prots with air of enchantment, I'd work around it by splitting targets and/or switching targets often, then spiking the monks themselves.

For GvG ,a team with two boon prots with air of enchantment could be countered by splitting your team in such a way that forces the opposing team to split with one monk in each squad. The monk would then become very vunerable to attack himself, because the energy management only functions when somebody else is being attacked.

Byron · Apr 29, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I saw, yesterday, Guild of Harmony running Air of enchantment on a boon-prot as part of a three monk backline with a WoH/Infuse and a mantra/boon signet bonder. And, low and behold, they ran a (huzzah!) smiter with zealot's fire, smite hex, and bal's aura. It was nothing short of amazing, and they were able to hold halls for many consecutive rounds just by plopping all kinds of monk enchantments on the ghost.

Wasteland Squidget · Apr 29, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

As I mentioned before, you don't put Air of Enchantment on your Boon prots. You put Air of Enchantment on your active prot in a 3-monk backline, and run two boon prots to do the actual healing.

This allows you to stacks heals and prots all day on a focused target (like a flag runner) and still survive perfectly well against pressure damage. As mentioned, a split team will still create some issues, but even on the team without the active prot you've still got a boon prot with elite energy management.

Byron · May 03, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

As I mentioned before, you don't put Air of Enchantment on your Boon prots. You put Air of Enchantment on your active prot in a 3-monk backline, and run two boon prots to do the actual healing.

So I've seen now that a new monk has been added to the lineup in light of air of enchantment, an active smiter. I'll post the build as I picked it up here, correct me if I'm wrong, please.

This is what I observed to be the rough HA variant, run with 2 boon prots and a woh/infuse backline:

12+1+3 smiting prayers
9+1 protection prayers
9+1 divine favor

Air of Enchantment{e} (protection prayers)
Zealot's fire (smiting prayers)
Balthazar's aura (smiting prayers)
Reversal of Fortune (protection prayers)
Guardian (protection prayers)
Protective spirit (protection prayers)
Smite Hex (smiting prayers)
Convert hexes (smiting prayers)or resurrection signet()

remmeh · May 14, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

So I've seen now that a new monk has been added to the lineup in light of air of enchantment, an active smiter. I'll post the build as I picked it up here, correct me if I'm wrong, please.

This is what I observed to be the rough HA variant, run with 2 boon prots and a woh/infuse backline:

12+1+3 smiting prayers
9+1 protection prayers
9+1 divine favor

Air of Enchantment{e} (protection prayers)
Zealot's fire (smiting prayers)
Balthazar's aura (smiting prayers)
Reversal of Fortune (protection prayers)
Guardian (protection prayers)
Protective spirit (protection prayers)
Smite Hex (smiting prayers)
Convert hexes (smiting prayers)or resurrection signet()

yup pretty much exactly the build i've bee using all day, save that i use draw conditions instead of PS. works amazing =)

Zui · May 14, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

This is what I observed to be the rough HA variant, run with 2 boon prots and a woh/infuse backline:

12+1+3 smiting prayers
9+1 protection prayers
9+1 divine favor

Air of Enchantment{e} (protection prayers)
Zealot's fire (smiting prayers)
Balthazar's aura (smiting prayers)
Reversal of Fortune (protection prayers)
Guardian (protection prayers)
Protective spirit (protection prayers)
Smite Hex (smiting prayers)
Convert hexes (smiting prayers)or resurrection signet()

Where's the boon?

Byron · May 14, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Oh, it's not a boon build. It's a hybrid smite/active prot that abuses air of enchantment.

granor · May 15, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

you *can* make it a boon build. But the one shown isn't a boon build. I personally like the boon build a little better but that is because I think it is more flexable. Of course it is worse at dealing damage.

Byron · Jun 09, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

B-b-bumped. A few skills have tickled my interest recently:

Blessed Light

Power block/power leak on a sword W/Me

Dragon Slash

Shroud of silence

Anyone have an opinion?

Patrograd · Jun 09, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

B-b-bumped. A few skills have tickled my interest recently:

Blessed Light

Power block/power leak on a sword W/Me

Dragon Slash

Shroud of silence

Anyone have an opinion?

dragon slash looks really nice imo. At 16 sword I think it gives 5 adrenaline, making it a combination of TTL/auspicious parry and Galrath all in one hit, pre-powering the next spike combination. i dont think you can argue with that at all.

Greedy Gus · Jun 09, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

dragon slash looks really nice imo. At 16 sword I think it gives 5 adrenaline, making it a combination of TTL/auspicious parry and Galrath all in one hit, pre-powering the next spike combination. i dont think you can argue with that at all.

The argument is that you can't really put final thrust on a dragon slash war. The guy can be useful as a sever/gash machine, maybe another trick or so, but no sweet 5 hit kills.

Byron · Jun 10, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Dragon slash makes continuous skill chaining possible - I'm not sure anything can outdamage a sword warrior running sever/gash/sun and moon/dragon. By the time you get the whole combo off, it's ready to go again. I ran those 4 skills on a Tiger's Fury W/R, and the results were borderline amazing. The weakness, obviously, is lack of snares and KD - but it may be worth it for the sheer damage output.

Patrograd · Jun 10, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Dragon slash makes continuous skill chaining possible - I'm not sure anything can outdamage a sword warrior running sever/gash/sun and moon/dragon. By the time you get the whole combo off, it's ready to go again. .

Last night we played [Char] who were running that warrior. It hurts, alot.